Grandview Guardrail Neighborhood Meeting



Special Meeting
Grandview Guardrail Neighborhood Meeting
Ashland Council Chambers
June 2, 2016, 6 pm – 8 pm
 
Q&A:
Unless there are bumps on the road how will the traffic go slower?
-There will be enforcement in the area temporarily when 15 MPH is installed. The average speed of the traffic is 21.1 MPH. ADT (average daily traffic) is 548.

Has this ever been considered to be a one-way going downhill?
-No, this shared road designation has to meet our standards and meant for two way traffic. It just requires a 15 MPH speed limit posting.

Will there be a centerline?
-No there will not be one. When a centerline is present, vehicular traffic speed tends to increase and pedestrian awareness goes down. When a centerline is not present it forces vehicular drivers to be aware of sharing the road with bicyclists and pedestrians.

Is there consideration for a permanent walkway for pedestrians? Why not create one lane for pedestrians/bikes that makes us feel safer so we are not jumping out of the way. How are pedestrian refuge areas created with the 350 foot continuous guardrail?
-We are going to stripe the road for refuge areas. There will be 5ft on either side of the road for refuge; an engineer will not stamp the final design unless we have refuge on both sides of the roadway.

How long is this going to take to build?
-The plan is to have this constructed this summer. This is not a complex project to complete, it will take approximately 2-3 months.

How much money?
-Engineering estimates with a 30% contingency is $240,000.

Chip-sealing the road – there are constant potholes that are not filled regularly and people go way over to avoid them. Is the material used for the street, could there be a longer lasting material to be used?
-The chip seal is a great wearing surface as long as it is maintained. We will have a doubled chip seal that will last 15 years. The last chip seal was about 20 years ago.

Considering speed humps?
-Speed humps are not advisable on hills. Rumble strips are not received well by citizens in residential areas because they can be loud. Usually, rumble strips are only recommended on streets near parks or schools where there is a lot of pedestrian crossings and very few if any residences nearby.

The school bus travels down the middle of road right now.
-This will be a shared road, which will be accessible by everyone.     

Do you want children to play on the street?
-If we treat this as a shared road, you should feel comfortable with your children walking along the road, not playing in the street.

Have developers spoke to the city about this area?
-No developers have spoken to the city.

Has there been a study done for number of bicycles that go up the road?
-A formal study has not been done. However, when asked how many people walk on the road a majority raised their hands during the meeting on June 2, 2016.

Grandview is the major collector in this area, Wimer and Strawberry are not easily accessed in the winter. How can Grandview Drive be proposed as “shared street” when it is a major access to the neighborhood particularly in ice or snow?
-In recent reports, Grandview generates ADT of 548 per day. A shared road is designed to accommodate a maximum ADT of 1500.

A guardrail is ok, however it puts pedestrians in danger the way it is now.
-The proposed shared road project will create a 5 ft. pedestrian refuge/buffer to the guardrail.

Since the guardrail has gone up, does not walk it anymore. Agrees that a guardrail is good for vehicular traffic, but the one there is now is not ok. Where will the refuge area come from with the guardrail?
-There will be a refuge area made. The proposed project will construct two, 5 ft. refuge areas on both sides of the 18 ft. chip sealed roadway, by cutting into the embankment.

Why is the guardrail only in this area?
-The guardrail was installed un-permitted by a developer. A traffic engineer has determined the guardrail provides vehicular safety and should stay.

Since it wasn’t permitted, is it built to standard or in a location the city would have put it? How deep are the posts? Is it engineered correctly?
-Yes, the guardrail is built to 
ODOT standards as verified by an engineer. ​

How will there be 6 ft. of refuge there with the guardrail there?
-Refer to engineering plans.

If the city had done the city the way it should have done, (permit, public comment) they would have approached it right by meeting warrants. Why was the guardrail allowed to be constructed without soliciting neighborhood input? Who authorized the guardrail? Why weren’t neighbors alerted beforehand?
-The guardrail was installed un-permitted by a developer. A traffic engineer has determined the guardrail provides vehicular safety and should stay.

The road ranges from 16-20 ft. – where is all of the roadway coming from?
-The city will be cutting into the hillside to create more room for the road and pedestrians refuges.

A portion of the guardrail could be removed now.
-The City traffic engineer has determined the guardrail should not be removed.

In the interim, can a trail be made on the slope (hillside where it will be cut into)?
-No this would be trespassing on private property.

What are we gaining in doing this project?
-It will provide appropriate space for all modes of traffic.

Doing some other kind of thing with the guardrail, use a cable instead? This particular guardrail is not set in stone?
-Staff is evaluating cable and wood guardrail options.

Will the shared access start from the fence at Ditch Rd. to the corner, or all the way down to Scenic?
-It would start from Scenic, smart speed signs will be used to show your speed in the area.

Concerned for drivers. Making it 15 MPH is a real inconvenience. Why does this have to be a shared road?
-There is not a room to build a standard road because it is physically constrained by the slopes on both sides of the road; the roadway is not wide enough.

Many bicycles, skateboards, walkers use this road. What about bikes that speed?
-Bikes have to follow the same rules as cars, they can receive a ticket for going faster than 15 MPH.

The guardrail has pushed the city to fix this area, so having the guardrail here has promoted this move towards safety.
-The Grandview shared road project was discussed in 2010 and adopted in the 2012 TSP and would have likely been added to the 2017-18 budget cycle year. The guardrail did move staff’s recommendations/time table up 1-2 years.

Will the city be open to tweaking this project as it goes along to work with the citizens throughout the process?
-Yes, as long as the final project meets engineering standards.

It is a crisis to some residents because they cannot walk here anymore.
-This is why staff is recommending the shared road project be completed this summer.

The city is only considering the current traffic flow, what about the future traffic flow because there is a lot of development going in above Grandview. Agrees to the current proposal, however it may not work with future development.
-The current ADT is 548 and is capable of up to 1500 ADT.

In favor of 15 MPH, right now however the car that come up and down do they slow down for pedestrians. Its discouraging to see that they do not. What is the potential for requiring heavy trucks that are quite prevalent above in the construction? Could we require them to only use Wimer? They cannot make this turn most of the time anyway.
-We do not have designated truck routes. We could put a ‘sharp curve ahead’ sign.

Could we put a weight restriction on the road?
-No, weight restrictions are only used for bridges.

Supports 15 MPH. Has witnessed bicycles going up Grandview, while a car coming up behind going 20 MPH, which goes over yellow line, while a car is coming downhill around the corner – the line of sight is bad for someone coming up Grandview. Maybe the crest be cut down or graded down.
-With the shared road, the refuge will be available for a bicycle to move over so the car doesn’t have to move into the other lane.

How quickly will the retaining wall go in?
-As soon as we get approval to go ahead with the project. The city has to go through the bidding processes and aiming for August and September to begin installation. The retaining wall will vary from 4-12 ft. along the slope.

How does this get funded?
-Staff recommends that we pay for this from the street fund.

What is the length of the project?
-Intersection of Skycrest to Scenic Drive and currently the length is 600 ft.

Will there be public input on materials used for the project? Aesthetics will be nice.
-No, there will not be public input for materials used for the project or retaining wall.

Considering Alta, drainage now is a ditch, could it be improved? Now it is a problem and gets plugged.
-We have city engineers looking at how to fix this.

How many Trees are to be removed?
-Currently, seven trees are proposed to be removed. 

What is the reason (justification) for the guardrail? Why does the recent engineering report not include options for removing or relocating the guardrail? Does the installed guardrail meet specification? Why was/is the non-permitted guardrail on Grandview allowed to stay despite being in violation of the city municipal code?
-See attached traffic engineers report.

How much of Grandview will be re-designed? Please clarify as the engineered drawings are difficult for a non-engineer to interpret.
-Currently the length is 600 ft.

What kind of consideration has been given to the fact that:
1. As a major thorough fare and
2. As an area growing denser in population, that
3. In the event of a major emergency, Grandview (as is) cannot accommodate two vehicles a breast (like a fire truck coming in as residents try to get out)? (thinking of the Oak/and Hills Fires)
A speed limit is excellent, but how will people be held to it?

-The paved area is still the same travel path with or without the guardrail.

What prevents any other property owner from installing a similar guardrail on public property (right of way)?
-The Public Works Department will be working with our Legal Department to update the encroachment permit and code.

What is being done to account for the decreased property values due to the pedestrian hazards and narrowed access of Grandview?
-Staff will contact a realtor to see if property values would decrease. 

Is the guardrail installed to an approved standard?
-Yes, the guardrail is built to ODOT standards as verified by an engineer. 

 
Comments:
Illuminated bumps can be used on the road instead.

Safety issue, the top at the stop sign, blind on the right side, cannot see traffic, only can see on the left side – this is a safety issue. There is a sight distance issue because of the vegetation. Corner of Grandview and Grandview…

The shared road idea has come up because of the illegal guardrail that has been installed. 

A shared road should be experimented somewhere else in the city. 


The chip seal will be on the existing surface. 

There will be a warning sign warning trucks of sharp curve. 

Live action signs will be installed. 

Option A  has 9 ft. worth of gravel area on either side
Option B has 11 ft. on either side
The City has decided to use Option B to allow more room. 

Agrees that parking cannot be here. Rumble strips will be annoying. 


Including lights in selected areas where there is more danger could be useful vs putting them all along the road

15 MPH is too slow for this road.
-This is a concept for all users in the road to maintain safety for everyone.​

 
Questions being researched by staff

Are the posts the correct depth with standards for break in slope and resistance?

Will there be street lighting? If we are encouraging people to walk on this road, it needs to be lit.

-Staff will look into street lighting for the roadway.

Have any cars gone over the hillside?

Who assumes liability if a pedestrian is crushed between the guardrail and a motor vehicle?

 

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